glad we talked

setting & defining difficult boundaries

• Tori & Chanel • Season 2 • Episode 26

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How do you set boundaries with difficult people? It's a tough question, but in this episode, Tori and Chanel break it down and talk about how to do it! From the recommendation of Chanel's therapist, the girls discuss insights from a chapter in the book: Set Boundaries, Find Peace by Nedra Glover Tawwab. They reflect on what constitutes a difficult person, what a boundary is, and what fair boundaries look like. The girls also answer questions like are all boundaries good boundaries? 
From people-pleasing to the importance of open communication and self-reflection in setting and maintaining boundaries, this episode is packed with useful tips and perspectives. Tori and Chanel also share personal experiences and examples of setting boundaries, such as asking a friend to take down an unflattering photo on social media. We remember the early days of Facebook! They also discuss common reasons why people may not respect boundaries, such as not stating needs or expectations clearly. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the importance of setting and maintaining boundaries for personal growth and healthy relationships.

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Tori:

Hi friends, hello and welcome back to Glad we Talk podcast. I'm Tori, I'm Chanel. Chanel, you sent me an article this week, or a chapter from a book from your therapist, and it's very interesting yeah.

Chanel:

I had a session like two weeks ago and I was talking to my therapist about a difficult person in my life that it's kind of like hard to set boundaries with them. She was, you know, obviously doing her therapist thing, giving me advice, but for my homework she was like I want to send you this chapter from a book. It's by Nedra Glover Tawwab and it's a book on boundaries, and the chapter that she sent me is specifically about setting boundaries with difficult people. So I read it and I just thought it was really good. I took a lot away from it and I wanted to share it with you because I know we both have like issues setting boundaries with people in general then, let alone if the person's difficult. So we just thought it would be interesting to talk about today and like what constitutes a difficult person when you're setting a boundary, what a boundary is? What are fair boundaries?

Tori:

Yeah, this is a really good topic and I was excited when you sent me this because, it's true, we all struggle with difficult people, whether it's in our personal or professional life, and I think we whether we think of someone right now when you're talking about difficult people and how it is to set boundaries or maybe we've experienced it in the past I think this will resonate with a lot of our friends, so I think we're just going to hop into it today.

Chanel:

Yeah, no, no fluff today, we're just getting into it.

Tori:

No, no fluff just pure advice from Chanel's therapist, from us.

Chanel:

Hi, we're doing fine. How are you? How are you? Great, moving on.

Tori:

That was outstanding items. Great job, Chanel. So in the article you sent me, I keep calling it an article In this chapter from the book that you just referenced.

Chanel:

I'm sorry, I'm sorry the amount of times you've called it an article and I'm like it's not a standalone article.

Tori:

It's because I don't read books. Yeah, in this chapter, the example that we were given of a hard person to set boundaries with was this son and his father, and his father would call him when he was drunk, and the son didn't like this. I don't know if it was a drinking problem Unclear, I can't remember that part but the son didn't like it, and so he decided to work with his therapist on setting this boundary. So this is just like one example of a difficult person. But I think, like you said earlier, there's so many different difficult people like, especially in your situation, like the person you're dealing with. Probably it might not be drinking, but it could be something else.

Chanel:

Yeah, and I think we all have kind of learned what a boundary is at this point. Like we know, a boundary is like setting. We're going to talk a little bit more about like what we think a fair boundary is later. But for all intents and purposes, boundary is something that you set for yourself to make you you yourself feel more comfortable and you know your own limits. And it's something that you set for yourself with other people to make sure that they're respecting you in the way that you want to be respected and treated. So in the book she talks about, like you said, setting boundaries with difficult people and she gives some examples of what it can be like when someone is difficult, when you're trying to set a boundary.

Tori:

This can be really difficult when you're setting a boundary with someone that doesn't either recognize the need for this boundary or what they're doing wrong. I think that could be really hard, and it gets into these points that you're going to talk about in a second, about what that could be like in the process of navigating this new boundary with a difficult person.

Chanel:

Right. So she says like a few examples of being difficult when you try to set a boundary, someone who pushes back, they basically like ignore that you even mentioned a boundary and continue doing what you want. She talks about people who test your limits. So they'll try and like sneak or manipulate or get one past you and do it in a way that you might not notice.

Tori:

Like they'll pretend like you never set the boundary, like they'll just ignore it.

Chanel:

That one is the pushback one and then the testing, the limit one is kind of like I'm going to do this but you're not going to know I'm doing this.

Chanel:

I'm going to do this, but you're not going to know I'm doing this, I'm going to be like really sneaky and manipulative about it. Oh, they're going to consciously try to work around and circumvent this boundary, yeah, and they kind of take advantage of you in a way. Oh, I see the difference here, yeah. And then another one she says is like they rationalize and question you, like they challenge the reason for your boundary and its validity, and that one I feel like a lot of people can do if you're not someone who sets boundaries. Often they kind of take advantage of you like oh well, you've never set a boundary in the past, why are you all of a sudden setting a boundary? You can set a boundary whenever you want.

Tori:

Right, just because there was an instance of bad behavior before and you let it go, doesn't mean you have to continue to let it happen, like their bad behavior isn't the means and like you, accepting it once or twice doesn't mean like that's the pattern that should continue exactly, and maybe you talk to your therapist and now you wanted to stop.

Chanel:

So, yeah, exactly. Um. Another example she gives is like defensiveness. So if you try and set a boundary and they challenge what you said or your character or make excuses about how their behavior is okay, um, so they just get really defensive and they're like, well, I don't see how this is a problem or, um, I don't see like what I'm doing is wrong. Like they just get really defensive and kind of like attack you for setting up your boundary.

Tori:

Basically, this is the one that makes the most sense for me and I think the one that I've most commonly experienced is like when you address something, it's like it feels critical and yeah, I mean you kind of are calling them out for their what's not working for you, but they get defensive and they're like, well, what's wrong with me, like this, and they can kind of gaslight you and into thinking like it's okay, like I think the defense is the primary thing that we all experience.

Chanel:

Yeah, I feel like gaslighting could fall under this one, because it's kind of like making you feel like you're wrong for calling them out. They get really defensive. They're like well, I don't see how what you feel is more important, you know, they just like make excuses for their behavior and just pretend that everything's okay, when really it's not as we're going through this list.

Tori:

I'm thinking of you people specifically.

Chanel:

And like no one that listens to the podcast guys like all friends, listening it's not about you guys.

Tori:

So just rest assured. But like I'm thinking about like past people and wow, it's bringing up some feelings.

Chanel:

This is a little triggering, yeah. And then the last way that she says someone can be difficult is the silent treatment. So they'll stop talking to you because they didn't like what you said. And a lot of people she wrote do this in hopes that you take back your boundary. Because imagine, you set this boundary, someone's giving you the silent treatment. They're not talking to you. You're like I feel really bad. I said it Now, I ruined our friendship, I ruined our relationship, I ruined whatever you had going on, and then you feel bad all of a sudden. That's another form of gaslighting. All of a sudden you feel bad now for setting a boundary for yourself, because now they're mad at you and they're giving you the silent treatment, giving you the same treatment, and something I read later in this chapter.

Chanel:

Was that you?

Tori:

shouldn't apologize while you're setting this boundary and like you know, if someone's defensive and like you're starting to feel guilty, like oh, should I have done this? And you feel like you're hurting their feelings, like it's important not to apologize when you're setting this boundary because that kind of just values the boundary you're setting and showing that you care and listen. I think this is really tough because you and I both, I think we say, oh, I'm sorry, just accidentally you know what I mean.

Tori:

It's like, oh sorry, I'm breathing, like it's just something that, like a lot of women do, they apologize for taking up space, and I think not apologizing is so key in setting boundaries, like standing your ground and not being like oh I'm so sorry, but like hey, I gotta like call this out.

Chanel:

You have to be like really confident and firm yeah, and a lot of what she says in the chapter is like making sure that you stand by your boundary once you set it. A big part of it is like not going back. If you set a boundary and you're letting it slide, then they're going to think it's okay sometimes. So it's really hard to assert the boundary when you're letting it slide sometimes and not other times. So, yeah, you have to stand firm in it. She also gives like statements that you can use, which I found to be a little for me like a little weird, because she says to you like I want and I need statements, I need you to stop calling me when you're drunk. And another one she says is I expect, like I expect you to stop calling me when you're drunk.

Chanel:

And that one I was struggled with. I was like I can't picture myself saying I expect. I feel like it's so unnatural, like I don't know, like I don't know for you if you felt that way, kind of reading through it, but like I don't set boundaries often because of my people pleasing tendencies. So I just felt like when I was reading through it I was like I feel like this would be so unnatural, and I told my therapist that as well. I was like reading through this. It just felt like something that I wouldn't feel totally comfortable doing.

Tori:

Yeah, it's funny that you just said people pleasing, and you know, as I was thinking about this word, I, or this phrase, I expect because I think it could be hard to be honest, like you can't presume that someone's expectations are your expectations, like, and it's, you know, I guess it has to be very and this is kind of what we're talking. Know, I guess it has to be very and this is kind of what we're talking about. The boundary has to be like valid, like there has to be a real reason for this boundary, and then we're going to talk about what we at least think makes grounds for a boundary. Like it's not fair, I think, to say like well, I'd expect you to just know what I was on my mind, like that's not. I think you know what I mean, because we're mind reading and stuff like that.

Tori:

Like, or you know, sometimes when that guilt feeling comes up and you know, mom, I'm not saying this to you, but when you're a parent has an expectation of you and you don't meet that expectation, and maybe it's right or wrong, but you don't know, and it could be that the expectation isn't fair, that's being set and you're expecting, so I don't know. Net, net is. I feel weird about that one, just like you do.

Chanel:

Yeah, agreed, I feel like it could be a really big gray area because people can kind of use it to their advantage rather than really using it for a valid boundary, like in the book she says, one of the statements she uses for I expect is I expect you to return my car with a full tank of gas. Like that, I feel like it's a good. It's a good I expect is I expect you to return my car with a full tank of gas. Like that, I feel like is a good. It's a good I expect maybe because if you're going, to lend your car to someone.

Chanel:

Yeah, I expect you to return it with a full tank of gas, but, like you said, I expect you to read my mind, or I expected you to know. That that was going to upset me is a really hard statement to use with a boundary, because you're putting these expectations on someone that maybe they can't fulfill.

Tori:

Yeah, the gas is a really good tangible example. You know I can see that you don't want to be stranded. So, like this is and it's something easy, like hey, if, if you're gonna, if you're going to lend me 20 bucks, I expect to be returned. I think that's that to be repaid. I think that's fair. But like I would have expected you to know better, it's kind of like, well, what if it was an accident? Like exactly.

Tori:

It depends on age and everything you know like. I don't know if Mitch came home today and I said I would have expected flowers.

Chanel:

I think it would be not fair, I expected you to come home with flowers. He's like oh sorry, I need you to come home with flowers. And he's like oh sorry, I need you to come home with flowers.

Tori:

I think this is fair today and it's, um, I think I need. It gives you a position to show what your needs are and it helps explain the boundary more. You know like, for example, I need space If, If you just need time to process something, that's a need, you need space. You're communicating that. You're not saying I would have expected space, Like that's making someone guess that you needed space, you know.

Chanel:

Yeah, I think that's why she gives the three statements, because it's like I guess, depending on the situation, which one feels the most relevant to use. Like if you were to say to Mitch, like I need you to bring me home flowers on days that I'm upset, maybe that's like a good way to say it versus like I expect you to bring home flowers on days that I'm upset, I do feel like that, I expect, is a little bit more not demanding, but a little bit more clear cut and I think it has to be like a very tangible, like valid reason for using that statement. So that is fair to both parties.

Tori:

Yeah, I agree 100%. The other thing that you said was the people pleasers that I wanted to touch on. I think a lot of thought and time, and maybe therapy or just processing, goes into setting boundaries. Especially if you're a people pleaser, especially if you're more empathetic, a sensitive person, someone that's not really outspoken, maybe a little bit more timid or shy, this can be really difficult for you. I know I felt that way, especially with my anxiety and just like not wanting to upset people. I always want to do the right things and often think about myself second and what other people would want first. So I could see this being really difficult for people that haven't practiced it, and so maybe these tools really help her and especially like you. Like it's almost like building that confidence to be able to say I need this.

Chanel:

Yeah, because I think, if you think about it, there are people who are probably really good at setting boundaries, like. I know people in my life who are very clear cut and who set boundaries and who, if we're trying to make plans, they're like I'm sorry, I can't, and they don't give explanation. They're just like I'm sorry, I can't, and that's such a good boundary to have. Like there's no need to explain yourself. Like if you can't do something, you can't do something. If you're not available, you're not available. You're putting yourself first and it's really hard to do.

Chanel:

I feel like there are people who are really good at it and there are people who struggle with it a little bit.

Chanel:

And I think she gives some examples in the book of like if you do set a boundary, how are ways that you can like make sure you stay firm and reinstate it?

Chanel:

So one of the ways that which we both talked about is just like assertively, restate it, like if it happens again just the same thing, you use the same statements, you use, you know you say the same thing again and just make sure that you stand firm, like we were saying. Another one she says is like correct it in real time, don't let the opportunity pass and then mention it later, say it in the moment, which I thought was interesting, and I mentioned that to my therapist and she actually had a kind of a different take Cause she was like. She was like well, I do agree with everything that Joe was saying in the book. She was like sometimes people are really emotional in the moment and if it's a boundary that you're trying to set that makes you emotional sometimes in the moment, you may say it to someone in a way that you don't mean, so like you can be like meaner or more rude about it. She was like sometimes I just advise maybe taking a second before you say something.

Tori:

Yeah, I think you have to really be able to read the situation and the scenario, like, if you're the one setting the boundary, most of it's on you, right, you're going to feel anxious about it because this person probably doesn't see it coming. So you're probably going to want to do it at the right time. And I could definitely say, if it's in a heated argument, someone getting really defensive and it just blowing up and not really happening, you know it's just the stakes are higher than I could see where you really have to make make sure you're doing at the right time.

Chanel:

Yeah, and then another thing she was saying as well as like people are entitled to their response, so that you, so you have to accept that you can't expect everyone to, just because you set a boundary, agree with you Like they're entitled to their own feelings as well, right, you, you almost have to.

Tori:

you have to prepare yourself, and I think she says this as well. You have to prepare yourself with whatever the outcome is going to be, because it might not be what you think. It's not going to all be honky dory sometimes and maybe sometimes it goes better than you expected, you know. But you, you really have to manage your expectations and how this outcome comes when you're setting the boundary and you have to be kind of like prepared for fallout or you know, whatever comes, with that?

Chanel:

Yeah, I think so too, and like you have to understand that, like you're, different people, like they're not gonna maybe understand your boundary right away, especially if you're not used to setting them. So you have to give a period for both people to get like used to this. I'm sure, like for you know yourself if you're not used to setting boundaries, and then the other person if they're not used to this dynamic in your relationship.

Tori:

Yeah, the other thing is like I, we've talked about this before in our friendship episode when we had friendship breakups, like sometimes people just set so many boundaries you know, so it's like I think this acclimation period makes sense when, like you're, the boundary has been set and people are working on it Right. But sometimes people are just setting boundaries left and right and it's almost a hard to tell what is a fair boundary.

Chanel:

I completely agree and I think I mean listen, it's great, everyone's going to therapy, right? I think it's. It's awesome that everyone's like not everyone, but most people are like self-aware and that they're like I should get therapy, I should talk to a therapist. But I think in that a lot of people are maybe telling their side of the stories to their therapists, right, and then their therapist is like okay, well, you're right, and this is what you need to do and you need to set a boundary about this. And then I feel like somewhere it gets lost. So I think a lot of times either number one, people are reading like articles or books and misinterpreting things, right, and they're like I, this is my boundary now, and it's like that's not a real boundary. And then two like I think sometimes people go into therapy and they're just like telling their sides of the story and they're just getting validity from their therapist and it might be very one-sided.

Tori:

I think that's a really good point you make because, again, one-sided stories, there's always two sides and like I feel like sometimes people neglect the parts that make them look bad to their therapist if you're not 100% open. Like%. I feel, like I'm very honest with my therapist, I really try to just put everything out there probably TMI, even for a therapist. I'm just like I want you to evaluate the full situation. But, like you said, some people are just looking for validation and I don't know if a therapist can see through that or not.

Chanel:

I guess it depends on the therapist. Yeah, wow. But but I also think it's like are you like having like a life bulb? You're like Hmm.

Tori:

I, I am. It's just like I hope people are self-aware, Can't work on these problems, and just it's like not getting to the core problem, which really upsets me. Like if you're in therapy, that's step one, that's great, but you have to be willing to do the work and do the self-reflection it takes and not just say I need to set better boundaries, but also what are you doing to help the situation? You know, like we we, you and I had a difficult conversation yesterday. We just had a typical Tori Chanel fight, a little rift, nothing major, but we were talking through it in such a thoughtful way that I was like wow, we both have really done the work. You know, we we've reflected on this. We see where we went wrong, where we could do better, and we're opening to open to listening to each other. And that's what comes when you have two people that are really dedicated on becoming better people and evolving. And did we set boundaries yesterday?

Chanel:

No, no, it wasn't like that, it was just like hearing each other out. But I think you're right, being open to listening to each other is like the most important part. Like, even when there were difficult things that are like hard to hear, we still like hear each other out and we still give each other the space to respond. And then we still respond thoughtfully and we talk to each other with respect, first of all. And when you were saying the thing about like um, telling your therapist everything, like tmi, I'm like I, I try and do that too because I want her to see, I want her to see everything so that I get the most out of it. Like I remember telling her something and I I was like yeah, and then, you know, honestly, I was pretty passive, aggressive in that moment, like I don't want to be like that. And she was like, well, I'm, I'm glad that you know, you noticed that about yourself. And I'm like, no, yeah, I do. I'm pretty self-aware.

Chanel:

And I remember another time, like my old therapist, I was telling her a story that I told it was like that meme. That's like when you google symptoms of toxic man and you find out you're the toxic one. I was like I love that. I was like telling her about something with me and Martin and I was like, yeah, so like when I get ready and like I'm like blah blah, she's like well, how do you think that feels for him? I'm like, all right, you know what you got me there. Yeah, so it's just funny because, like I really what I like to your point, like I was being honest and like because of that I got the feedback that I really needed. And I think that's what maybe some people I'm not saying everyone, just some people might be lacking is, is that like honesty piece of like making themselves look bad sometimes in order?

Chanel:

to move forward and set correct boundaries that make sense and that are fair to your first point.

Tori:

Yeah, wow, this was a light bulb moment for me, for sure.

Chanel:

I know Cause? We definitely know.

Tori:

Yeah, I'm really, I'm really glad we just talked that part, that part out. It really like wow.

Chanel:

Um, so, like in your opinion, what is like a fair boundary, like? What do you think is like something that makes sense to you?

Tori:

What do you think is something that makes sense to you? Yeah, okay, I think, and I know you and I kind of are on the same path, but I think the fair boundary is when something is affecting a person's well-being, their safety, their time, their availability, their mental health, their privacy, kindness, empathy, anything like that really is when you need to think about boundaries, because that that that affects the whole being. It's like those really core things to who you are and that kind of sacred space. I think that's where boundaries should be set if necessary. What about, like? I know you feel similar, but like, do you have anything to add to that?

Chanel:

I think that's good.

Chanel:

Like your sacred space um, I like all the words you used because it's like like safety, like taking advantage of your empathy, like that kind of goes into the manipulation part that she was talking about with people.

Chanel:

Like manipulating you, like anything that takes advantage of like who you are as a person is kind of a fair boundary to set, because I know that there are people who like set bad. I mean, I don't want to say like anyone's boundaries are bad, but there are boundaries sometimes that you're just like, is that really a boundary? Like, are you sure? Like, are you being a little unfair, are you being a little defensive, or is that actually a boundary? And maybe you're the person being difficult when another person's trying to set a boundary. Like I think we have to be a little bit aware of the boundaries that we're setting and make sure they kind of like hit on these pillars of like is this affecting my well being? Like, I wish there was like a list of questions to ask yourself when setting a boundary, you know maybe there is that would be good there might be.

Chanel:

Is this affecting my mental health? Is this affecting my privacy? My space Like a list of questions before you move forward with setting the boundary to make sure that it's fair to everybody.

Tori:

Yeah, and I think, like you're saying, like, assess the situation and sometimes, if you have to cross a boundary to you know, and is that boundary being crossed because it's necessary, because it's affecting someone else's safety, wellbeing, health, um, you know, I, I think an example this is a complete dire like this is the most clear example for me is that, say, someone is like a predator, right, and they're like, well, it's my privacy, so you shouldn't be able to check my. I mean, these are why we have laws and everything, but you can't come onto my property, blah, blah, blah. Then, like, if you see, if you know this is happening, you have to cross that privacy boundary because children and women and people's well-being are at stake. So I think those are okay times, like legally, you know, these are the instances and they're the really drastic instances, but there are people that will defend those boundaries and it's, you know, it's crazy, but they do it.

Chanel:

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's a good example. Very dark, but I agree with you. It has to be like in a case of like, like even in therapy they're always like if you tell me you're gonna harm yourself or someone else, then I have to, unfortunately, like cross our boundary that we have of privacy and tell someone right, so it's the same thing right right.

Tori:

it comes down to the well-being of an individual, I think these boundaries so you and I also had a little bit of a hard time actually figuring out like what would be a relatable and real boundary for us, and you came up with a really good example, oh, yeah, well, I was like we were just joking around, but I was like if I asked my friend to take down a bad photo of me on their Instagram or like remember back in the day in college and people used to like tag you in photos on.

Chanel:

Facebook.

Tori:

Facebook was the wild wild west.

Chanel:

Yeah, Like, can you untag me from this horrible picture that you took of me Right? Like for me that's a boundary. Like I don't want myself looking horrid and like a gremlin on the internet. Like can you please take this down? This is like a public space. If my friends, like my friends, always were like, oh my gosh, no, you're being dramatic. But yes, of course, Like they would either crop me out or they would take it down, or they would untag me, whatever it was.

Tori:

But imagine someone was like no, it's my, it's my facebook I'm gonna leave this photo of you up because I think that I look nice. Yeah, what, yeah, like it could be.

Chanel:

So you think that's a little crazy I agree.

Tori:

I think, like you know, if it's, if it's you in the picture and you don't want it there, get rid of it. If you're a friend, you should say, ok, I will take that down gladly. But there are people that will defend it, like you're saying.

Chanel:

They'll be like it's my social media.

Tori:

Yeah, so I think a compromise if this person's like creating a boundary. I guess one thing too, like, hey, can you ask me what are?

Chanel:

I would like for you to ask me before you post pictures of me, right, that's how you would set that boundary? Oh yeah, no, you're right, we would all review the photos together in college and then we'd be like I that one, I hate that one.

Chanel:

Please don't post that one. This is the one that we all look good in because, if you think about it, when you're looking at a photo right of a group of girls, who do you look at? You look at yourself yourself. You're not looking at anybody else and, of course, like we're our own harshest critic, so we're going to see the photo of ourselves and be like, hate that, but like your friend's not going to think you look ugly. So you really have to set the boundary. You really have to be the one to speak up and say I don't like this photo of me. Can you please take it down?

Tori:

yeah, yeah, and next time, next steps. Can you ask me before posting like you know something. Next steps I would have expected you to know.

Chanel:

I look terrible in that photo right, I expect it's probably like not the way to go here. It's so dramatic.

Tori:

It's like I would have expected. I love it.

Chanel:

It's the drama yeah, no, it's really. I need you to take down that gremlin photo of me before I pass out and go into hiding. Thank you. I want you to get rid of that photo. Yeah, hey, it works. You know what?

Tori:

I mean, yeah, it really does. Oh, that photo, yeah, hey, it works you know, what I mean it really does. Oh, that brings me back to like the Facebook days.

Chanel:

Yeah.

Tori:

I've definitely been that friend when it was like high school when we were on Facebook that like felt defensive. When someone asked me like, a friend would say I don't look good in that picture, can you take it down? Because like I like the picture and like, so I know how that feels. Like I can empathize with someone that like has been asked and like a boundary has been set up. But as an adult I understand it more.

Chanel:

You know, I think as you mature you understand things a little bit different so you're saying you were the one who looked good in the picture and posted the photo of the bad friend and had to take it down?

Tori:

yeah, but I didn't know, she looked bad you know, like right I didn't right, I didn't know.

Tori:

But then they came back to me and said hey, I don't really like this picture of me, do you mind taking it down? And I felt bad because I looked good, like we're saying you know, you look good. Yeah, and I didn't think she looked bad. But there she was asking me to take it down and you know, this was high school. Now I don't care Like I, literally I'm the last person. Like, if there's a picture of me that looks bad, but if it's not compromising, you know what I mean.

Tori:

Like for us it was always like don't post pictures of alcohol, Don't post because your job.

Chanel:

You know, I think it's funny that you have to like sacrifice yourself. I think it's funny that you have to like sacrifice yourself like you're you looking good because your friend doesn't like it. Anyway, so just to wrap this up a little bit, from Nedra's book and the chapter that we read, I think I wanted to kind of mention like common reasons that people don't respect boundaries, and it could be external factors or it could be something you did. So I kind of wanted to talk about these a little bit. So some of them are like you aren't upholding your boundaries, so, like we said, like you're letting things slide.

Chanel:

You didn't speak in a firm tone, so maybe you said it jokingly or you said it like in a way that's like not serious and you were just like, oh, I would just appreciate it if you did this. You know, like too casual maybe. Um, you didn't state a need or expectation. I mean, like we said, it depends on the situation whether you can say it's an expectation or not. Um, your boundaries are flexible women. If they're serious, the next they aren't. Um, you assume people will self-correct even if you don't tell them what you need or want that's kind of of like that's mind reading.

Chanel:

Yep, yeah, you're right, cause you're just like. You should just know that you're. What you're doing is bad, and this is kind of a way that my therapist said I was being passive aggressive, and the book says it as well. Someone does something you don't like and you, you kind of, are upset at them, but you don't give them the reason why. Obviously that's passive aggressive, um, but that's obviously not a way to deal with something and the person isn't going to know that. That's why you're upset at them, unless you talk to them.

Tori:

Yeah, I see passive aggressiveness as being a fear or a cop out to actually doing the work of setting a boundary. You know like it's a waste of time. That's my issue.

Chanel:

It's a waste of time and energy, and this is what I'm working through in therapy, and this is yeah, this is what we're talking about and then just some other ones yeah, right, I'm, she's self-aware yeah thank you for being honest with us you're so welcome, always, yeah, and then you believe that stating your boundary once should be enough. You apologize for having boundaries and you issue consequences and don't stick to them, which we talked about.

Tori:

Listen, I think a lot of boundaries is like with Brody training him Repetition, repetition. Maybe some positive reinforcement, you know like, hey, buddy, good job respecting that boundary you want to treat.

Chanel:

I like that. I mean, don't be like pets. If only everyone treated people with kindness. No, I, I, I do understand what you're saying, though Like in a like, not like weird way, because sometimes positive reinforcement can just be like a compliment to someone who's doing something good and like doing behavior that you like, versus always being negative you know, I agree.

Tori:

I mean there are things like that I said I needed from Mitch, or that I wanted and that I came to expect from him. I think, actually, I think it's like need, want, expect, like, because it's maybe the expect is like based on the boundary and like repeating it. You know what I mean.

Chanel:

Like based on like we've already talked about this need.

Tori:

Yeah, you know, like I expressed this need, I expressed what I wanted, and I would have expected you, after 123 times, to remember that.

Chanel:

I like that. That's the reinforcement, that's like the you're reinstating your boundaries or you just need gas in your car, but yes, or that, yeah, it's like I need this, I want this, and then, if you know, you've stated it a few times, you can't keep saying I need, I want. It's like, at this point, I do expect it can't keep saying I need.

Chanel:

I want it's like at this point, I do expect it. Yeah, no, I totally, totally agree with that. I'm with you. Yeah, um, and I just don't apologize for having boundaries. No, we're just gonna end on that.

Tori:

I did a TikTok on it one time, like I, when I stayed over your apartment and I was apologizing, and I was like I'm sorry, I, I'm sorry you have to set up the futon for me or whatever the sleep, the air mattress. And you're like, why are you apologizing? And I was like I'm sorry, I'm sorry you have to set up the futon for me or whatever, the sleep, the air mattress. And you're like, why are you apologizing? I'm like I just feel like an inconvenience. You're like, I asked you to stay here. Of course, we're gonna give you a place to sleep yeah, that was crazy.

Chanel:

I do remember that I was like that's not something to apologize for, though yeah, that's a whole other topic yeah it, it is.

Chanel:

But I think it's good for people who are notorious apologizers to hear, like when you're setting your boundary, don't ever feel sorry for it. Like this is something that you need to stand firm in. You need to be like, confident in. You have to say seriously, so that people take you serious, and if you're dealing with a difficult person, it's even more important to reinforce those things yeah, I think the key is the difficult people.

Tori:

This is really tough. This is tough work and it can be tough when you're close with someone too. It could be friends, family but your friends and family you know they're gonna love you, hopefully, and you'll be able to work on it. It's the difficult people that's like scary man.

Chanel:

Sometimes your family and friends are the difficult people true, chanel, I really appreciate you bringing this article. No, it's the no okay, my boundary is you need to stop calling this an article. It's a chapter of a book.

Tori:

All right, I'm gonna respect that boundary. I hear you, Chanel. I'm really appreciative that you brought this chapter of this book to us for the podcast today.

Chanel:

Yeah, thank you to my therapist, thank you to Nedra. I need to find the full name of the book. It's called Set Boundaries, find Peace by Nedra Glover-Tawwab, and this is just one chapter, like I said, in the whole book. So if you are someone who needs help with setting boundaries, I definitely have heard that this book is amazing and it really helps you learn how to set boundaries and keep them, just like this chapter did. So hopefully you guys took something away from this today, because I know Tori and I did.

Tori:

Yes, for sure. And if you have set boundaries and want to talk about it and give us examples, let us know. We love hearing follow up to our topics.

Chanel:

Yeah, slide in those DMs.

Tori:

Yep, and you can do that on TikTok and Instagram at Glad we Talk Podcast, and you can email us these stories or text us. But you can email us at gladwethotkpodcast at gmailcom.

Chanel:

And don't forget to rate and review us on Apple, spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Tori:

No, I need to set a boundary. I need to go eat something.

Chanel:

Oh my God, that's so late.

Tori:

I'm over explaining. I need to go eat something. Oh my God, that's so late.

Chanel:

I'm over explaining. I need to go Chanel. I'm going to go now. I'm going to go Chanel. I want to go now.

Tori:

Chanel, I would have expected you to know I was going to go now.

Chanel:

These are going to be our new phrases. Not that we're trying to like make fun of the boundaries, but we love them.

Tori:

A little bit of laughter, yeah, yeah, exactly glad we talked guys, glad we talked, glad we talked.

Chanel:

This delay is awful go ahead, okay, go glad we talked guys okay, one, two, three, I'm gonna go woo.

Tori:

Yes, I don't like that ending. Let's not, we're not gonna end with a yes, okay.

People on this episode

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Chanel

Co-host
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Tori

Co-host